tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post2297245620507584972..comments2022-11-16T06:42:00.408-06:00Comments on Reasoning from the Scriptures: Unwittingly Establishing the Veracity of the Bible and its Authorolan stricklandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-13819169215989439682010-05-22T17:22:03.172-05:002010-05-22T17:22:03.172-05:00So you do not believe in once saved always saved??...So you do not believe in once saved always saved????? Do you read the same Bible as I do. Like Ken and Ken Daniels I was once a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I even led a young girl to Christ and she believed that Jesus died for her sins. I no longer believe so am I headed for hell now. Can you truly believe in a god who sends loved ones that you have prayed evey day for and have not believed to hell?? I can not and will not. Does the bible not promise that the prayers of a righteous man will be answered. Is it not God's will that all should go to heaven. So weh I prayed for those who meant the most to me in this world and they did not believe I have to accept that this is god's will for their lives that they shall spend them in hell? Where is this god of love that is taught in the new testament? This is the same god of the old testament that said murder the innocent that's okay. Your life would have been fine without god if you made the right choices!cerbazhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05979844017918932544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-81056442149765072242010-03-25T08:21:40.315-05:002010-03-25T08:21:40.315-05:00Ken,
We are not going in circles, we are tighten...Ken, <br /><br />We are not going in circles, we are tightening up the circle. What you believed about penal-substitution is very pertinent to our conversation.<br /><br />If you could prove that your former belief was genuine biblical saving belief then you could prove the loss of salvation (which is unbiblical) and that the Bible isn't trustworthy. You could also prove that no one can have assurance of salvation which would also prove the Bible untrustworthy.<br /><br />But you can't!<br /><br />There is no other reason <i>than that</i> for apostates to attempt to prove that they were at one time <b>sincere</b> believers and now aren't.<br /><br />I'll never verify your current belief that your former belief was true. To do so I would have to lie. I will give you the sincerity part. I have no problem with you saying that you were sincere. However, you know as well as I do that a man's sincerity is just that - a man's. So the belief that you had was <b>yours</b> and not that which is given by God as a gift.olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-44121674596815260412010-03-24T16:44:50.000-05:002010-03-24T16:44:50.000-05:00Olan,
We are going around in circles. If you want...Olan,<br /><br />We are going around in circles. If you want to believe I was never <i> really </i> saved, be my guest. But remember, I was as certain of my salvation back then (for over 15 years) as you are now and I based my assurance on the same Scripture you base yours on now. So if I wasn't really saved back then, you may not be either. Selah.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-65738828408614452642010-03-24T15:19:43.939-05:002010-03-24T15:19:43.939-05:00The Bible is dogmatic about the truth that you nev...The Bible is dogmatic about the truth that you never were saved. I believe the Bible so I must be also.<br /><br />Since you brought up penal-substitution, what did you believe about that during your days of illumination?olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-68719181378319850442010-03-24T15:11:08.264-05:002010-03-24T15:11:08.264-05:00Olan,
You said: Actually you are being dogmatic....Olan,<br /><br />You said: <i> Actually you are being dogmatic. If you were truly agnostic you wouldn't claim to know anything. The claim that we can't know with certainty is a dogmatic claim of knowledge in and of itself. It is self-contradicting and self-defeating. </i><br /><br />I am not a <b>dogmatic agnostic </b> which would be an oxymoron (along the same lines as <a href="http://formerfundy.blogspot.com/2010/03/penal-substitution-is-oxymoron.html" rel="nofollow">"penal substitution"</a>).<br /><br />As an agnostic, I don't <b> believe </b> that anyone can <b> know </b> whether certain metaphysical statements like: "There is a god" is true. I am not stating dogmatically that no one can know. If I did that, it would be self-defeating.<br /><br />You say that you <b> know </b> you are saved now because of the <i> testimony of Scripture </i> and specifically 1 John. I based my assurance on precisely the same criteria. You say dogmatically now that I was never saved. I maintain that I had just as much reason to believe I was saved then as you do now.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-54810648425786495042010-03-24T15:01:09.075-05:002010-03-24T15:01:09.075-05:00Ken,
Actually you are being dogmatic. If you were...Ken,<br /><br />Actually you are being dogmatic. If you were truly agnostic you wouldn't claim to know anything. The claim that we can't know with certainty is a dogmatic claim of knowledge in and of itself. It is self-contradicting and self-defeating.<br /><br />I'll give you this: at least you're consistent in your uncertainty. You could be wrong, but you <b>doubt</b> it.<br /><br />You said, "<i>Are you going to answer my question</i>?"<br /><br />Which was, "<i>How do you KNOW you are really saved right now</i>?"<br /><br />The assurance of salvation can only be had from the testimony of Scripture. The Bible gives us Biblical evidences by which to know for sure if we are saved or not. It contrasts and compares believers to unbelievers (whether they claim to be saved or not) and it spells out the characteristics of each group. One epistle in the Bible is given over entirely to this one subject so that those who are truly saved can <b>KNOW</b> that they are. My faith passes the test of genuine Christianity.olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-57825861137444714262010-03-24T14:29:51.001-05:002010-03-24T14:29:51.001-05:00Olan,
It could be. I am not dogmatic like you are...Olan,<br /><br />It could be. I am not dogmatic like you are. That's why I call myself an agnostic. Are you going to answer my question?Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-24393783429111760492010-03-24T13:52:23.809-05:002010-03-24T13:52:23.809-05:00Ken,
You said, I didn't believe it was a lie ...Ken,<br /><br />You said, <i>I didn't believe it was a lie then. I believed it was the truth</i>.<br /><br />Since you were deceived once, what makes it that you can't be deceived twice?<br /><br />In other words, how do you KNOW that what you believe to be true now isn't really a lie?olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-38598712995399764262010-03-24T12:21:19.197-05:002010-03-24T12:21:19.197-05:00Olan,
Let me ask a few questions. First, how do y...Olan,<br /><br />Let me ask a few questions. First, how do you KNOW you are really saved right now?Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-31194278876772846492010-03-24T12:17:06.254-05:002010-03-24T12:17:06.254-05:00I didn't believe it was a lie then. I believed...I didn't believe it was a lie then. I believed it was the truth.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-57944699762267665312010-03-24T11:39:31.329-05:002010-03-24T11:39:31.329-05:00Ken,
So you believed a lie then - one that square...Ken,<br /><br />So you believed a lie then - one that squared with reality - but not now?olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-8683044134737015692010-03-24T11:30:13.151-05:002010-03-24T11:30:13.151-05:00No. I believed it was true then but I don't no...No. I believed it was true then but I don't now.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-67240477105754918322010-03-24T11:22:22.297-05:002010-03-24T11:22:22.297-05:00Well if it was true then isn't it true now?Well if it was true then isn't it true now?olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-23553844805517910712010-03-24T11:19:27.233-05:002010-03-24T11:19:27.233-05:00Olan,
It did for over 15 years.Olan,<br /><br />It did for over 15 years.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-11362007456849982442010-03-24T11:17:38.966-05:002010-03-24T11:17:38.966-05:00Ken,
Did that illumination square with reality?Ken,<br /><br />Did that illumination square with reality?olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-66152781417615388452010-03-24T11:14:46.036-05:002010-03-24T11:14:46.036-05:00Olan,
The Holy Spirit didn't reveal anything ...Olan,<br /><br />The Holy Spirit didn't reveal anything to me. He illuminated the Scripture and convinced me that I was a sinner and that Jesus died for me and that Jesus rose from the dead.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-47540223984664438852010-03-24T11:09:37.941-05:002010-03-24T11:09:37.941-05:00OK. Would you mind elaborating what the Holy Spiri...OK. Would you mind elaborating what the Holy Spirit revealed to you?olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-79625231987720394832010-03-24T10:58:31.164-05:002010-03-24T10:58:31.164-05:00Olan,
I based it on the testimony of Scripture an...Olan,<br /><br />I based it on the testimony of Scripture and the inner conviction of what I perceived to be the Holy Spirit.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-34817339622066052542010-03-24T10:54:23.288-05:002010-03-24T10:54:23.288-05:00On what did you base your belief in the heart that...On what did you base your belief in the heart that God raised Jesus from the dead?olan stricklandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05345193051857763038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-420271249333204065.post-91863414026231757042010-03-24T10:48:50.622-05:002010-03-24T10:48:50.622-05:00Olan,
Here is where your premise fails. I did sin...Olan,<br /><br />Here is where your premise fails. I did sincerely believe that Jesus was Lord and that he died on the cross for my sins and that he rose literally and bodily from the grave. I believed that for well over 15 years. I don't believe it now. So, if I had died sometime during those 15 years would you say that I would have gone to heaven?<br /><br />I know how you will answer. You will say <i> NO </i> because the fact I don't believe now shows that my faith then was not genuine. It was a head faith and not a heart faith or some other such nonesense. All I can say to you is that if my faith for those 15 years was not genuine, then you don't know today that your faith is genuine. You can only know that it is once you have persevered to the very end of your life.Ken Pulliamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12161943466797514854noreply@blogger.com